Poet J.R. Rice on Why “Dreams Don’t Work Unless You Do”

J.R Rice is a writer, teacher, and spoken word artist, born and raised in Oakland, California. He has a B.A in Creative Writing and an English Education teaching credential from California State University of Long Beach. While studying abroad in Greece, he was mentored by the author, George Crane. His novella, Broken Pencils earned Second place for Best African-American Fiction and Best Novella in the 2023 Speak Up Radio International Firebird Book Award Contest, an Honorable Mention in the 2023 San Francisco Book Festival Award for Best Wild Card entry, and was a top finalist for Hidden River Arts’ 2023 Blue Mountain Award. His short story, “Depends (Good Night)” made the shortlist for the 2023 Letter Review Prize for Short Stories. His travel essays, “No Pasa Nada” earned Third place in the 16th Annual Solas Award for Best Men’s Travel Story. In addition to his writing accolades, he earned the Rookie of the Year award at the 2005 National Collegiate Poetry Slam in Philadelphia. He was a Semi-Finalist in the 2023 Berkeley Poetry Slam Finals. J.R Rice resides and teaches in the Bay Area. Below are excerpts from the interview with James Morehead on the Viewless Wings Poetry Podcast.

James: I first saw you perform at a Literary Speakeasy event in San Francisco and was struck by the force of your performance, in the face of the audience. How did you develop your fearless style of performance?

J.R.: “Thank you, James, for having me on your podcast. My journey to developing my style has been long, with different stepping stones throughout my past. In middle school, I started with rapping. I had a little hip-hop group with my friends, where we did freestyle and wrote songs. That was my initial foray into rhyming. Then, in college at Cal State Long Beach, I got into Poetry Slams. It was a significant time for me; I was even recognized as rookie of the year at the National Collegiate Poetry Slam. I also took theater classes just for fun. 

“My journey as a teacher further shaped me. I spent two years as a substitute teacher in Long Beach and Los Angeles, working with diverse groups of students. Walking into a classroom of strangers, who often didn’t want me there, forced me to learn how to engage and control the room. So, my experiences in teaching, college, and even from middle school, all these steps have brought me to where I am now. I feel blessed and believe that I am still evolving.”

James: How does performing, and the audience reaction to your poetry, play a role in the revision and editing process? 

J.R.: “I gauge the audience’s emotional reactions during my performances. When I’m on stage, that’s usually the final version of my poems. However, I do revise my delivery and emphasis on specific lines based on the audience’s response. For instance, if a line elicits laughter or a strong reaction, I’ll put more emphasis on it. Also, I do go back and revise parts of a poem if they don’t seem to connect with the audience. I’ll tweak it to engage people more effectively. On stage, the poem feels like it’s mine, my version. But once I receive the audience’s reaction, I tailor it to make it more public-friendly.”

James: Your performances include, at some points, the audience as part of the performance, which can be very effective and comes with risk. Your poem “Remains” is one powerful example. It’s impossible to know if or how an audience will engage. How did you develop this approach and how has this evolved your style of performance and how you think about your poetry?.

J.R.: “Thanks for mentioning that. ‘Remains’ is one of my favorites, and I often use it as a closer in my shows and open mics. It includes a call and response section where the audience repeats after me. A lot of this approach comes from my background in teaching, as well as being raised in the church, attending Sunday school, and observing preachers and choirs. I brought those experiences onto the stage.

“The first few times I tried this, it didn’t go well at all. It was awkward, met with silence, and I had to rethink my approach. I experimented with pacing and repetition, adapting based on trial and error.”

James: In “Alien” from your chapbook” I Was, Am, Will Be” you write:

No you see, I am the unknown, the universe,
The first descendent, the original man,
The mysterious force before it all began,
And after it all ends.

This book contains poems with passion, purpose, protest, and the grief of prejudice. When writing, how do you think about capturing passion while retaining the poetry?

J.R.: “That’s an interesting question. First, thank you for highlighting that line from ‘Alien’ – it’s one of my favorites. Balancing passion and poetry is a unique challenge for me. I often receive compliments about my performances, with people saying they really felt the emotions in my work. However, it’s less common for people to comment specifically on a line or the writing itself. I think the balance is different when people read my work compared to when they experience it live. Capturing both the essence of poetry and the intensity of passion in writing is a difficult task, indeed.”

James: “Ebony & Ivory” very effectively juxtaposes a tightly scripted scene written in the form of a play to the fleeting impact on the audience. How did this piece develop? 

J.R.: “The original title of this piece was ‘The Last Scene to a Romantic Slave Film.’ It developed about 10 years ago when I was in an interracial relationship. I was dating a white woman who I deeply loved, but the relationship became complicated. In a morbid way, I manifested the end of our relationship into the scene depicted in the book.

“I also wanted to experiment with form. Rather than narrating the story in a typical way, I formatted it as a play. The interesting part about this poem, without spoiling it for those who haven’t read it, is that at the end, the reader realizes it’s like a movie or a stage play. After the scene ends and the curtain closes, the audience witnesses all the tragedy, pain, regret, and violence, but despite all that, they leave unchanged in their thinking. This message drove the story and its development. I’m fond of this piece, but I’m aware that it can be initially off-putting for some readers.”

James: The long poem “Be” is a compelling piece of storytelling that wills the reader to keep reading. Storytelling plays a strong role in many of your poems. How have you evolved this skill? 

J.R.: “I’ve always felt like a storyteller. Although I’m not very religious, I am spiritual and believe in concepts like past lives and reincarnation. I feel as though storytelling is in my essence, possibly inherited from ancestors who were storytellers in their communities, engaging people and teaching children. I see myself as continuing that tradition in a modern context, as a manifestation of my ancestors.

“In my storytelling, I aim to bring heart, emotion, and messages that connect with and are about people, making them relatable. My skill in storytelling has developed significantly over time, and it’s something I’m very proud of.”

James: In the poem “Affirmations”, which I heard you perform before reading in your second chapbook, is built on the chorus “So I write…I write…I write…” In performance this phrase is repeated with increasing intensity. How has the style of slam poetry informed your writing?  

J.R.: “Yeah, definitely. My introduction to slam poetry was through Def Poetry Jam on HBO, produced by Russell Simmons and hosted by Mos Def. It was very popular during my college years at Cal State Long Beach, where they even did some recruiting. I met one of the performers there, which was quite inspiring.

“The key difference between slam poetry and traditional poetry is that slam poetry is meant to be read out loud. It’s crafted for performance, utilizing hand gestures, varied intonation, and vocal dynamics. When I’m writing, I always read my work aloud to myself. If it sounds good spoken, then I know it’s effective. My process involves handwriting everything first, reading it aloud, then typing it up and continuing to test it through reading out loud. It’s all about how it sounds when spoken; that’s when I know it resonates.”

James: Building on the last question, several of the poems in your two chapbooks reference the importance of writing. In “Ill-Literation” you write:

Answer A is unlikely a dream to a lonely writer who sets his mind free as a Holy fighter in a rhyme-spree, solely guided to reside at Shakespeare & Company, while a chorus of tourists keep bugging me like a swarm of Buzzing bees, budging and nudging me to either leave or beat their asses….

Why is writing so important to you, and to communities where learning to write was actually prohibited years ago? 

J.R.: “I wrote ‘Ill-Literation’ while I was in Paris, at Shakespeare and Company. I was fortunate enough to backpack around Europe, and during that time, I was writing every day. It was a way to document my experiences and cope with my own stress and anxieties. That specific piece came to life while I was at Shakespeare and Company, trying to find stillness amid the chaos caused by tourists who seemed more interested in taking pictures than appreciating the historical significance of the place. Their presence was disrupting my peace, so I wrote about that stress and feeling of alienation.

“Regarding the importance of writing, it has been crucial in keeping me balanced. Writing has literally saved my life. My books, particularly focused on a character’s journey through Europe, showcase how writing guided them through various adventures, love, and death. Like the character, writing has been my lifeline through my struggles with mental health and bipolar disorder. It has helped me manage panic attacks and maintain stability.

“I believe writing can be a powerful tool for everyone, not just for crafting poetry but even for simple journaling. Writing out your feelings or daily experiences can be incredibly therapeutic.”

James: You are an extraordinarily active poet in the San Francisco Bay Area poetry scene. What advice do you have for poets looking for mics to perform at, and what advice do you have for poets fearing that first time at the mic? 

J.R.: “My advice is straightforward: people won’t know you unless you put yourself out there and make yourself visible. I live by the motto ‘Dreams don’t work unless you do,’ which I have written above my refrigerator. Many successful acts and famous people started at open mics and small gigs, building up and developing their skills over time. I still go to open mics myself. I’m fortunate now to have a stable gig, doing a monthly poetry showcase called Social Societies every first Saturday at Ocala Cafe in Oakland. I connected with a promoter who believed in me enough to give me my own showcase to curate with different artists.

“For those starting out, just keep going at it. A practical tip is to use Eventbrite to find open mics; it’s a great resource. Another motto I live by is ‘Don’t live by fear.’ Fear might tell you not to go to an open mic or that you’re not ready, but that will only hold you back. Instead, listen to the opposite of fear – listen to love. Tell yourself that you love and believe in yourself, and use that as motivation to push yourself out there. Remember, don’t live by fear, and dreams don’t work unless you do.”

James: As a teacher what have you learned from your students, and what do you hope your students learn from you? 

J.R.: “For myself, I’ve learned to be more tolerant, patient, and understand that everyone is different, coming from diverse backgrounds with their own pains and sufferings. My students deal with problems and stresses that I’ve never experienced, and it’s taught me to be more compassionate. This compassion is something I try to instill in them as well.

“I believe that this generation, despite the chaos in the world, has the potential to bring about the change we need. Many older people, including those from our generation, often criticize young people for various reasons. But I see that these young people possess a belief and passion for making a change. I’m convinced that when they grow up and take our place, they will bring about the necessary transformations.

“In my work, I teach at-risk youth in Oakland at a continuation school. My students come from all walks of life – some with ankle monitors, some who are parents themselves, and others who have attempted suicide. Despite the tough lives they lead, they give me hope. Watching them persevere through challenges like homelessness, incarcerated parents, or the loss of family members is inspiring. They teach me that no matter how difficult circumstances are, it’s possible to rise above them. Honestly, I feel like I learn more from my students than I teach them.”

Listen to the full interview on the Viewless Wings Poetry Podcast to hear J.R. recite selections from the book.